Horde II

Hi everyone, hi Cat. I decided to play this game as this is an expansion I don't remember very well (maybe because I never bought it - as it happens always I guess for both a surprising and fair reason)

Please don't be offended by my words as they're neither criticising the game nor its writers and creators (God forbid!), they're simply evaluating some of the ways the next game can be more high in morals.

Cat, now I value the way you decorate your Quest games less than Redshift did, because it adds to less attachment to the game. It may sound Buddhist but Christians are also not worshipping images, so it's good as it also helps focus on the story more.

First, when the story of the game relies on magic a lot, it adds to the evil in the story because magic is against objective morality, so it leads to failures. I haven't created long stories in my life, but I wonder if those who do feel something they can't resist but to put into a story.

There's also Goddess Kali that wants to be served. I wonder whether it affects the story.

Finally, I played through the base game without killing any humanoids other than the leader of smugglers and leader of mage council. It was a challenge that I enjoyed. I also pity rasvims as they are so peaceful in the Undead City, so maybe next time. So why I'm saying this. Maybe I'm crazy and sick with feelings of pity for the lives of characters in games, but it's a nice touch when enemies are rarely humanoids and mostly not above bats or giant sand worms so to speak. It's sickening when you have to fight archers for no reason to think of - but maybe it's just me :)


  • Hi, DeMenchev. It's good to see you. Horde II was partially written by Yuz who is from Indonesia so there are many overtones from that country and some from some of its legends.

    I think the base game has archers and bandits and such because Hungary is deep with forests so placing those in forests was natural for Sylon.

    I have more pity for animals than for humans sometimes because they fight to defend their territory, themselves or their families although many are predatory. Humans have free will and often use it to hurt others.

    Of course being a Nogur, I like to bash things. :)

    I also have pity for Rasvim but as a player, that's my other choice.
  • Hmm-- wonderful. Can't beat Al-Ghayra.

    Anyway, I like the way the game is unique due to the need to enchant for AC and how the first town is without monsters so there's time and space to figure this out. I guess if every expansion came with guides to help them prepare for the journey, players might avoid frustration in high-level expansions and they might love them even more.

    That dragon in hell pits is hilarious and a few other characters cracked me up too. I wonder if some characters were actually meant to be like Bud Spencer's Charlie Firpo or close to BPD in psychiatric terms which are hard to believe given how hard it is to evaluate such a personality. Lord Yuz did a great job there - the expansion is a worthy successor of the first game. But yeah, Al-Ghayra is impossible to beat...

  • edited January 31

    I started with faith in human free will, got my analytic mind restored (and restored to my senses) by Daniel's book in the Bible, then figured out that DeMenchev who fought for free will was in a game whose creators used a 666 mill as its logotype. I know it's fun and it's human values winning and it's... bad values more often than not. I need to think hard what we have but I guess it will lead to nothing anyway. Sorry for this rabbit hole, but surely God will help if we sincerely try to get the point of the different worldview where stuff is not standalone, and then we'll all find what's better than all that we have by suddenly getting it. It happened for me once, so "what's better than all we have and want" exists then.

  • edited February 1
    The next expansion is an offshoot of Thors Hammer and involves the Vikings from Ragnar's remaining band whom mostly are quite intent on wrong-doing. So killing humans there is built into the story. They do deserve a battle though. The expansion after that involves a final enemies so that should be more comfortable.
  • What I could do in Ragnar's Revenge is give an option to deal with the rogue Vikings in a way that doesn't involve battle. :)
  • Well if they're intent on wrong-doing it's ok then. From God's view death is punishment (If I understood the Biblical prophesies correctly). All I would ask for is some quests that involve forgiving by intentionally forgetting everything that a NPC did wrong (for example) and maybe some quests where reconciliation is an option (as the better option than doing quests the usual way).
  • edited February 1

    I take the words I said about Horde II back. Now I see why I get stupid when I try to discuss it.

    In fact, it's upside down gospel. In Lord Yuz's letter the story goes like this: Mage Nur Ali made a book by trapping Bethlusaa in it, and when the book was recited, "miracles happened; the sick were cured, the lame felt renewed vigor, the blind could once again see." What's this fable doing by listing Jesus Christ's deeds and calling it "a holy relic a procession of pilgrims would find in the palace of Lord Yuz's cousin, King Ja'far al Abra?" And then saying that "This is of course what Bethlusaa wanted all along"? And then "visions of a great dragon king and how he would [open Princess Yasmine] to a wonderful revelation when he grew stronger (whatever)"?

    Well, as it is written in Hebrews 13:9 - Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

    Carried about... carried along... with divers and strange doctrines...

    Whichever side I'm on, screw this, I'm deleting the game with all of my save files and waiting patiently for the sequel to Thor's Hammer to play it in HD.

    Grace - it's what I talked about as something better than anything I could imagine or anything else I could have.

    It is waaaaay too rich in spirit...ism. The base game didn't go THAT far. Or did it? The Gatekeeper being the eye of the apocalyptic storm and all that... I shouldn't care. Please try not to let games become hazardous like that.

  • edited February 2

    I know nobody is at fault for being influenced by anything closely connected to evil, so no body is at fault for integrating this story that has a very visible antichrist root. It just escapes me how the meek Jesus who called us not to go after what our souls desire, that is, strange doctrines, would be taken for some scary dragon king. Maybe it's just a "psychological projection" and the Truth is actually close to what Lord Yuz tried to represent in Horde II, so I would leave the question open for people more clever than me to figure this out. That is, if they become interested in The Quest :) I become too exhausted when I think of it, but I think Bethlusaa is treated like a villain too resolutely, so it's dark, not light. If only there was a way to make a reconciling choice with villains, maybe then the narrative would come to more virtuous conclusions, even if the villains stay villains and get beaten and killed when the player reconsiders. What do you think? The main part is the conclusion - Bethlusaa is too good for a villain, which is a mistake that was made at the outset of Horde II creation: in Lord Yuz's letter which is given to the player by Old Shaman right away.

  • edited February 2

    Given how many deceiving spirits there are, it could easily be that Bethlusaa in Horde II is not Bethlusaa at all. That's because he hadn't said a word, so I as player have no proof that he's Bethlusaa. All people could be deceived and in turn deceive the player. The question then is: who called the spirit in the tome "the spirit of Bethlusaa"? The story is STRANGE. Just think of it: a NEARBY mage Nur Ali did a super successful possession of a tome. Because it's power, duh. But is it true? A nearby mage? Well, surely such magic doesn't work so. Magic is occult, meaning it keeps secrets in order to manipulate people to do things but the secrets only work if they stay secrets.

  • There us a brief recap of the main story at Redshift's forum.

    You have successfully defeated the great dragon king Bethlusaa whose spirit now has taken shelter in an ancient tome. He plots to regain physical form and power by possessing Lord Yuz's cousin Yasmine.

    You need to exorcise his spirit from the book and destroy him once and for all.

    I don't see anything deceptive or strange about that, the task is pretty straightforward. He is a thoroughly evil character so destroying him is not a bad idea.
  • Dead dragon is dead. Even if he were not, one NPC (King Ja'far al Abra) got it right - it's not something he can overcome.

    But anyway, it's about Jesus and how we can't bear what's pure and true because of sin, so in the game what's pure and true is called "Bethlusaa's spirit". The deception is Biblical. Whether we like it or not it is so. Whether we ignore it or not, it is so. Whether we believe or not... it is so.

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